Joined: 7/2/2011(UTC) Posts: 611 
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I've come over a couple of casinos (won't name here) having specified in their Terms & Conditions that "advantage play is prohibited".
-Does that means that if I see a mathematical player gain from a game (like counting cards at live blackjack) or a good promotion I should not try to profit of it? Or does this means that I should play at the casino with the aim to LOSE my money? Seriously what is going on?
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Joined: 9/5/2014(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: The Internet
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Originally Posted by: Constantin  I've come over a couple of casinos (won't name here) having specified in their Terms & Conditions that "advantage play is prohibited".
-Does that means that if I see a mathematical player gain from a game (like counting cards at live blackjack) or a good promotion I should not try to profit of it? Or does this means that I should play at the casino with the aim to LOSE my money? Seriously what is going on? This is only in regards to what you mentioned in Live Black Jack. Any bonuses that are put up by the casino are to be used within the bonus T&Cs. The casino always reservers the right to forbid players to play Live BlackJack if they suspect advantage play, like counting cards, etc.
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Joined: 7/2/2011(UTC) Posts: 611
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Thanks Rodeo, good to hear this from a casino operator. If the casino suspects advantage play, sure can block that game from player, and also if it wants, can opt to block the player from playing on all of the respective casino properties for example. I see nothing wrong with it.
But the thing is, why not pay the player before closing his playing rights? OK, I understand it is in the terms and this fact give the casino full rights to do so because the player agreed when registered his account. But this to me sounds like an abusive rule specifically meant to pocket some lucky players money (because even playing with an edge there will always be huge swings) and so if the player keep losing, the casino will pocket his money, but using that term to void player winnings when he hit big, then it becomes a predatory term.
In my opinion that is equivalent of the casino stating in its T&C's all bets over $1 may be voided at the casino discretion. And every player that signed up with that casino is bound to that rule because he agreed with the casino T&C's when registering? OK, the player clearly erred because he didn't read the rules. But this comes down to: really does a casino have the right to set any (abusive) rule it wants?
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Joined: 9/5/2014(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: The Internet
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Originally Posted by: Constantin Thanks Rodeo, good to hear this from a casino operator. If the casino suspects advantage play, sure can block that game from player, and also if it wants, can opt to block the player from playing on all of the respective casino properties for example. I see nothing wrong with it.
But the thing is, why not pay the player before closing his playing rights? OK, I understand it is in the terms and this fact give the casino full rights to do so because the player agreed when registered his account. But this to me sounds like an abusive rule specifically meant to pocket some lucky players money (because even playing with an edge there will always be huge swings) and so if the player keep losing, the casino will pocket his money, but using that term to void player winnings when he hit big, then it becomes a predatory term.
In my opinion that is equivalent of the casino stating in its T&C's all bets over $1 may be voided at the casino discretion. And every player that signed up with that casino is bound to that rule because he agreed with the casino T&C's when registering? OK, the player clearly erred because he didn't read the rules. But this comes down to: really does a casino have the right to set any (abusive) rule it wants? I understand your point but this has been the practice of casinos for decades now and most likely they will not be able to catch a player before he makes his first withdrawal, so problem like taking the money from a player would not arise as often as you may think. The way I see this is that, the casino is invented to make money and players are made to have fun and not to pursue any professional or advantage play. That is why I would completely approve any strict rules by the casino regarding this as loose regulation would make it easier for more players to try and make a career out of this. There are big operations with special software to track hot tables on live games in online casinos with hundreds of employees that have a sole role to bet when the software gives them a signal to do so. Do you approve an operation like this?
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Joined: 7/2/2011(UTC) Posts: 611
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Originally Posted by: RodeoPoker.net There are big operations with special software to track hot tables on live games in online casinos with hundreds of employees that have a sole role to bet when the software gives them a signal to do so. - Do you approve an operation like this?
Short answer: I am totally against players using aid software to beat the casino or other players like in online Poker or other skill games - I'd call this black hat advantage play. But I fail to understand why using brain power would be against the rules (I'd call this white hat AP)? To give you a few examples, say there is a casino (online or land based doesn't really matter) which have a video poker game with a payback of 101%. Well, that is exploitable for the advantage player. I am against a player using a robot which plays perfect strategy 24/7 (that is black hat) because the player maybe does not have any idea about what's the perfect strategy for that game and he also is doing something else while "playing". But I am totally against the idea to void the winnings of a player who took the time to actually learn the perfect strategy and physically played the game (this is white hat advantage play) weeks at 10 hours a day to accumulate a big amount. The same it goes for blackjack, I've heard of XRay glasses which shows you what's behind the face down card. I am not sure if such equipment really exists or not, but for the sake of our discussion, suppose it's real. Sure I am against a player using that technology because it really steals an unfair advantage over the casino, and because it is illegal. But the story changes if there is a flashy dealer which many times allow me to see the face down card. That is not my fault and it is not my duty to warn him that he is exposing the cards?
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